Kiernan Shipka on ‘Industry’ threesome sex scene and child star status

SPOILER ALERT: This story contains plot details for ‘Habseligkeiten,’ season 4, episode 3 of HBO’s ‘Industry,’ now streaming on HBO Max.

Anyone who last saw Kiernan Shipka as little Sally Draper in “Mad Men,” or even as wand-wielding adolescent Sabrina Spellman in “Sabrina the Teenage Witch” might blink twice when seeing her latest role as Hayley Clay in “Industry.”

In the opening scenes of the season opener alone, she pops pills in a nightclub, gets frisky on the dance floor (with Charlie Heaton’s Jim, also a new character) and gives colorful descriptions of her vagina to her new acquaintance in her – quite impressive – apartment. And all this before Hayley is eventually introduced as an executive assistant at the shady financial startup Tender.

But it’s episode 3 that really kicks the remaining child star status Shipka left behind into the annals of TV history in a scene where she is playfully encouraged to have sex with problem aristocrat Henry Muck (Kit Harington) by his deviously manipulative wife Yasmin (Marisa Abela). Hayley agrees, perhaps too enthusiastically, and urges Yasmin to get involved in the action herself, so as not to be left behind in the endless power play. Of course, this being “Industry” and a season in which creators Konrad Kay and Mickey Down have all but blown away the show’s financial roots, this threesome is set in a medieval Austrian castle run by a family of fascists, where paintings by an “A.” Hitler’ hanging on the walls.

As Shipka notes, “Industry” is not only a show that “is brave, breaks the rules and pushes boundaries,” but also a show that manages to “get away with it.”

At first, Hayley appears to be the loving assistant, albeit one who also enjoys going out and taking drugs. But we see more of her identity as the show progresses. How would you describe her?

When I shot the show, it was pretty much the opening scene, and then it was a scene from a later episode. And I was kind of like, “Who is she, who is this girl?” I felt like she was playing some kind of game, and also wild and living her life, and had a much rougher, rougher quality, given how much she explodes within the first five minutes of meeting her. But I really didn’t know what she was talking about.

And what did you discover about her later?

Once I started, I read the first four scripts and talked to Mickey and Konrad about what her later story would be, and really had to map out this whole long game that she’s playing. I think Hayley is an incredibly smart, calculating and often deceptive character. I think she’s playing a game of chess, figuring out what kind of chess piece each moment is after experiencing the moment. She’s very emotionally connected to all these people as the show goes on — I think her thing is interpersonal relationships, these complicated power dynamics with other people. And that was so much fun to play. She has a real ‘dive in, nothing to lose’ quality that I really liked. As calculated and sophisticated as I found her, I also discovered that she had this “Am I doing the right thing?” didn’t have. thing, and had a forward movement to her playing that was intoxicating.

We need to talk about the threesome scene in episode 3 with Yasmin and Henry. There’s a big power play going on in there. At first it seems that Yasmin is manipulating Henry and only using Hayley, but this seems to quickly turn around. How did you see it?

It’s such an important scene for all three characters. But what I find so interesting about that scene is that everyone has a very different emotional arc: you’re doing something together, but everyone is kind of on their own journey. The actual physical nature of the scene came last for me. It was much more about what this meant to Hayley – why she did it, and what she was actually getting into. And obviously for both Marisa and Kit, it was about where their characters were and why they were in the situation, and what it meant to them. And having those three worlds come together and feel all those different energies was a very interesting moment. And really fun to do.

“Industry” has been daring over the past three seasons, but I think there are some lines in that scene that will still raise eyebrows. When you read the script, was there a part of you that was like, “Oh, okay, this is what we do?”

The amount of stuff I read and said, “Oh, I think I said that!” I’ve never been on a show where I’ve read the scene and then said in real time, “Oh, wait, no, no, I’m actually doing that.” But at the same time I feel like we are in such good hands. And that’s why the show, for lack of a better term, gets away with it the way it’s done, in such a careful, tasteful way. But it’s brave, it breaks the rules and it pushes boundaries. And I think that’s why everyone is excited about it.

I hope it wasn’t your first day on set…

No, that would be a different story! But we had shot some stuff, so I knew everyone at the time!

There’s a bit of montage in the sex scene where Yasmin eats oysters for breakfast, which is pretty awesome.

It is! And that was in the script. So it’s really a testament to the fact that Mickey and Konrad knew exactly what kind of show they wanted to make.

Casting director Julie Harkin said she really wanted to give you a role that was completely at odds with what audiences have seen you do before. As someone who last saw you on “Mad Men,” this is obviously very different. Was that also a consideration of yours going into this?

Yes, it was really exciting. I and I are very grateful to Julie and Mickey and Konrad for seeing me in this role, because it is different and more mature. I mean, I’m 26 now, but people have known me since I was six. And I am very aware of the weight that brings. So when they say, “Hey, I think she’s the girl for Hayley,” that’s really exciting to me. It’s a part I love. So I was definitely aware that I was doing something more mature. But I didn’t really think, “I really need to do this stuff now.” It’s about the people and the material. But if it can also be something that challenges someone’s perspective of me as an artist and if it goes against things I’ve done before, that’s so exciting and so fun.

This interview has been edited and condensed.